Question: Submission or Manipulation?
Today I have a question for all my readers (I know there are a few!) As our culture debates gay marriage, the long simmering debate on roles in marriage still goes on. Sadly, we all have heard that at least 50% of Christian marriages fail, mostly due to unresolved conflict. Regarding roles in marriage, there are two basic camps in the church today, including Christian counselors: equal roles and authority in marriage or male headship. Do you find yourself in one of these camps? Here is a question I would love to get many responses on-and you can be anonymous so your spouse won't find out! (You can read the comments yourself you know) So please comment on this:
A wife and mother of young children suddenly gets a passion for sky diving. Her husband is less than excited about this, forseeing a higher probability of becoming a single dad and widower. He asks his spouse not to engage in such risky behavior for the children's sake (and takes out a bigger insurance policy.)
Question: Is the husband being a dictator here? Does he have the right to ask (even demand) his wife not engage in the sport? Should the wife give in to his request, knowing the husband loves both her and the children and wants her around for awhile? Or should she go ahead and tell her husband he has no right to manipulate her that way?
Let me know ! I will tell you how a Christian marriage counselor answered when the vote is in!
A wife and mother of young children suddenly gets a passion for sky diving. Her husband is less than excited about this, forseeing a higher probability of becoming a single dad and widower. He asks his spouse not to engage in such risky behavior for the children's sake (and takes out a bigger insurance policy.)
Question: Is the husband being a dictator here? Does he have the right to ask (even demand) his wife not engage in the sport? Should the wife give in to his request, knowing the husband loves both her and the children and wants her around for awhile? Or should she go ahead and tell her husband he has no right to manipulate her that way?
Let me know ! I will tell you how a Christian marriage counselor answered when the vote is in!
posted by Rob | 2:04 PM
8 Comments:
hey rob,
i grew up women's lib all the way. that changed quite a bit in my college years. now, after being married for two wonderful years i see this issue more clearly, however, i still remain in the equal roles and authority in marriage camp!!! jason is definitely the head of this family-but his decisions as the leader of our home are saturated with my thoughts, opinions, and desires.
in response, no, i wouldn't call the husband's REQUEST here manipulation. DEMANDING that his wife not engage in something he deems is risky is honorable...but not biblical. i strongly believe it is her duty to carefully consider his concerns- but, if in his worry he keeps her from her passion, he will only be the head of a sinking ship!
it is important to remember that just because God gave this woman the gift of being a wife and mother doesn't mean he didn't also give her the gift and passion to do what so many of us could never do, SKYDIVE!!!
So Miriam wants to skydive huh?
Just kidding Rob, I land more in the equal roles camp. I think explaining his concern is just being honest and genuine which is always a good thing. Then she should (hopefully) be concerned about his concerns and not jump.
Ahhh the convenience of an idealist…
jesse
Hey Rob, this particular situation seems like life or death... Afterall the parachute will either open or it won't. So in this case I believe that it is the husband's responsibility to protect his wife from this unnecessary danger. She should have lived it up in college before having kids! Nevertheless, I believe that the key here is life or death, but I would venture to say that most of the situations that couples face are not life or death and should be handled together without dictatorship or manipulation. I believe that when it comes to oneness in marriage God is even glorified in compromise.
Take Care Old Timer!
okay, okay... so jason and i had a long talk last night and i have to admit that as a mother, no woman should actually be taking the risk of skydiving. i think jason is dead on that comprimise in these sorts of situations is the only way to a healthy marriage that has any chance of making it.
Interesting conversation going on already. I came in with a clear mind, and now I am even clearer on the point. I, like Jordan's original comment, grew up women's lib, mainly because I was faced with my parent's marriage "women obey!" and well that just doesn't work. Neither does it work in the opposite manner of "man obey!" Its difficult to understand the intricacies the Bible so clearly lays out as a role model for marriage. But the truth of all this comes down to selfishness. It isn't a question compromise, or who's in who's camp, the wife in this situation is pursuing this why? Is she seeking selfishly a feeling of being alive, or is it a case of identity? Honestly, I understand this example best because its close to the adventures of my heart. But I would have to place myself in the situation of saying why am I passionate about this if Wes strongly disagrees? And you know it is often the story of our marriage!! The Bible clearly states the relationship of husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church, and wives submit to your husbands. The message is this we (wives) need submit to our husbands unselfishly even as our husbands love us and submit to the love Christ has for us even more so unselfishly. -Niki
Hey Rob, thought you needed some single advice, or maybe I should keep my mouth shut, yeah, probably the latter. Anyways, I say "Can me and the kids go too?" Honestly though, this deals very directly with the role of a mother. Any activity that could potentially remove a mother from the raising of her small children is something that needs to be examined very deeply. AS Niki said, you have to examine the motives, and if they are selfish, and not in the best interest of Christ, or the children, then it is important for the leader in that relationship to make it clear that their children are for more important than thrills. Furthermore, I think it is absolutely appropriate and essential for the husband and father to persist against such an act if he is concerned for her and their children. However, it is not for him to make the descision, but to lead in that direction. A leader leads the group, his followers chose whether or not to follow, with good exemplary leadership throughout the marriage and consistent council of those following, a leader should be established as someone who the followers can follow, and therefore the followers should be confident in accepting that advice and following that leadership. I would hope and pray that the wife would be welcoming of his concern and confident in his leadership enough to take the step in the direction that is best for their small children. Course, thats all idealisitc, and I'm not even married, so what do I know?
kelly
Marriage is risky, if you want to speak about risk. As you noted, the risk of a marriange failing is MUCH greater than any chance of injury or death related to Sky Diving. I'm somewhat "risk adverse", maybe that is why I'm a single man commenting on this...
How do couples decide what car to buy, what to name their children, or which parents to avoid at Christmas. Do the answers to these questions help this discussion?
Maybe I'm trying to read too much into it, but the issue doesn't seem to have much to do with Sky Diving, instead, it appears to me the issue has to do with why the new found passion developed. Something else is going on within the marriage that has led to this, working from the assumption that Sky Diving is out of the expected norm for either of these two.
There seems to be a disconnect between the two about the risk to self or family. Whatever the risk, the wife isn't concerned it is a problem with respect to her family whereas the husband has great concern. Perhaps, the risk is mitigated in her mind because she is trying to communicate something of greater importance to her husband.
I didn't exactly answer the questions...
Dean M.
Rob,
The example given of skydiving seems to be an extreme, life and death example, but no doubt the underlying issue is about a man or a woman wanting to do something to fulfill a desire of their heart whatever that may be.
If a couple came to me for counsel I would do my best to convey that one of the most important words in marriage is "We, not I." It is critical that both the man and the woman be in agreement, be unified. Why? Because one's marriage is more important and fulfilling one's desire. If one of the spouse's is convinced that the other is being overprotected or hindering what God wants them to be then pray for them. Cannot overemphasized the importance of being one with your spouse.
But some might say a decision has to be made in a few days? As a general rule, do not let time dicate the health of your marriage. Make sure both people are on board, even if one person is indeed wrong. Give God the freedom to work in their lives for the sake of the oneness in marraige. In other words, oneness in marriage is more important than a timetable and one's desire. The only exceptions that I can think of are life and death situations like a spouse is in immediate danger and you ask them and they refuse like they are standing in the middle of the road with a car headed their way. You would use force to save them. But the point is these very rarely occur in marriage. More in theory than practical.
Eph 5:21 says "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." It is a two-way street, not just a woman's duty. And since I believe the Bible teaches the man has been given by God the spiritual authority to lead the family then it begins with him. That is why I call the man the servant leader of the family.
That's all I have to say about that.
Travis
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